So on the 19th day, Dudley the captain suggested
他们都来一次抽签
they should all have a lottery that they should draw a lot
来决定谁先死，以救活其余的人
to see who would die to save the rest
Brooks拒绝。他不喜欢抽签这种做法
Brooks refused. He didn't like the lottery idea
我们不知道这是否是
We dont't know whether this was
因为他不想冒这个险
because he didn't like to take the chance
或者是因为他相信，存在着绝对的道德原则
or because he believed in the categorical moral principle
不管怎样，最后没有进行抽签
but in any case, no lots were drawn
接着的那天，还是有看不到任何船舶经过
The next day, there's still no ships in sight
因此Dudley叫Brooks转移目光
So Dudley told Brooks to advert his gaze
他还怂恿了Steven
and he motioned to Steven
说，只好牺牲Parker
that the boy Parker had better be killed
Dudley做了个祷告。他告诉Parker他的日子不多了
Dudley offered a prayer. He told the boy his time had come
他用小刀杀死他，刺伤了他的颈内静脉
and he killed him with a penknife, stabbing him in a jugular vein
尽管良心上反抗着，Brooks享用着Parker对他们的“恩赐”
Brooks emerged from his conscientious objection to share in the gruesome bounty
后来的4天，他们3个吃着这位男孩的肉和血
For four days, the three of them fed on the body and blood of the cabin boy
这是真实的故事。最后，他们被获救
True story. And then they're rescued
Dudley在他的日记写道
Dudley described their rescue in his diary
他委婉地描述道，
With staggering euphemism, quoted on the 24th day
24日 当我们正在吃着我们的早餐时，一艘船出现了
as we were having our breakfast, a ship appeared at last
这三个人被一艘德国船救起
The three survivors were picked up by a German ship
他们被送回英国，接着被逮捕和审判
They were taken back to England where they were arrested and tried
Brooks作为公诉方证人
Brooks turned state witness
Dudley和Steven被受审
Dudley and Steven went to trial
他们没有否认他们所做的行为
They didn't dispute the facts
他们声称，他们是出于需要
They claimed they acted out of necessity
这就是他们的辩护。他们认为
That was their defense. They argued in a fact
牺牲一人，救活三人是对的
Better that one should die so that three could survive
公诉人反驳了他们的论点
The prosecutor wasn't convince by their argument
他说：“谋杀就是谋杀”
He said, "Murder is murder"
因此，该案要继续审判。现在，想像你是陪审团
So the case went to trial. Now imagine you're the jury
为了简化我们的讨论
In just to simplify the discussion
我们先撇开法律问题
Put asside the question of the law
现在假设你是陪审团
Let's assume that you're the jury
我们要决定，他们的行为，在道义上是不是允许的
Our charge is deciding whether what they did was morally permissible or not
多少人会投无罪释放，认为他们所做是道德上容许的
How many would vote not guilty that what they did was morally permissible
有多少投 有罪，认为他们所做的一切在道义上是错误的
And how many would vote guilty that what they did was morally wrong
大部分人都偏向了一方
A pretty size of majority
让我们看看大家的原因
Let's see what people's reasons are
让我先听听那些少数派
Let me begin with those who are in the minority
让我们来听听来自辩护方的意见
Let's hear first from the defense
为什么你会在道义上赦免他们呢？你有什么原因？
Why would you morally exonerate them? What are your reasons?
我认为，在道德上，他们虽然应该受到谴责
I think it's morally reprehensible
但道德上应受谴责和
but there's a distingtion between morally reprehensible and
是否要负法律责任是有区别的
what makes some legally accountable
换言之，就像法官说的，
In other words, as the judge said,
道德上不允许的，并不一定就是违法的
what was always moral isn't necessarily against the law
我不认为，说这也是情非得已就为盗窃、谋杀或任何非法行为来辩护
I don't think necessity justifies theft and murder or any illegal act
在某些时候，环境让你不得不这样做
At some point, you're degree of necessity does in effect
却是能为你开罪
exonerate you from any guilt
很好。其他的辩护有没有什么想说
OK. Good. Other defenders. Other voices for the defense
在道义上，解释他们所做的
Moral justification for what they did
我只是觉得，这是在绝望的情况下
I just feel like in this situation of desperate
你不得不做你需要做的，为了生存下来
You've to do you've to do to survive`
你不得不做你需要做的，为了生存下来。
You've to do you've to do. Pretty much
如果你已经19天没食物吃
If you've been going 19 days without any food
有人就必须牺牲，来救其他人
Someone just has to take the sacrifice and people can survive
而且，再说了，他们存活下来之后
Furthurmore, from that, let say they survive
他们可能会为社会作出贡献成员
and they become productive members of a society
他们回家之后，可能建立一个百万富翁慈善机构
who go home and start a millionaire charity organization
然后他们使所有人受益
and then they benefit everybody
我的意思是，我不知道他们之后会怎样
I mean I don't know they did afterward.
他们可能也会杀死更多的人
They might kill more people, whatever
如果他们回家了，变成一个刺客呢？
What if they went home and turned out to be a assassin
你是那个知道他们是刺客的人
You're the one who know they assassinate
是的
That's fair
好的。很好。你叫什么名字？
All right. That's good. What's your name?
Markies
我们听完辩护的。
We've heard the defense. Couple voices from the defense
现在，我们需要听听控方
Now we need to hear from the prosecution
大多数人认为他们的做法是错误的。为什么？
Most people think what they did was wrong. Why?
第一，我的想法是
One of the first thing that I was thinking was
他们已经很久没吃过东西了
they haven't been eating for a long time
这影响到他们的心智
they're mentally, like affected and so
这样也许就能为他们的行为辩护
so then that could be used as a defense possible argument
他们的精神状态不佳
they were not in a proper state of mind
他们当时所做的决定，可能是他们不想的
they weren't making decision they might otherwise they made
如果这是一个吸引人的论点
If that's a appealing argument
你的心理状态发生了改变，于是做出这样的行为
you've to be altered mindset to do something like that
这可能是个挺有说服力的论点
suggest that people who find that argument convincing
持这种观点的人可能会认为他们的行为是不道德的
do think they're acting immorally
但我只想知道你的想法
But I just want to know what you think
我不认为他们的行为，在道德上是正确的
I don't think they act in a morally appropriate way
为什么呢？
Why not? What do you say, here's Markies
刚才 Markies就替他们辩护过了
He just defended them
他说，你必须这样做，在这样的情况下
He said, You've got to do what you've got to do in a case like that
面对Markies你会怎么说？
What do you say to Markies?
无论在什么环境下，人们也不能够
There's no situation that would allow human beings to take
把其他人的生命掌控在自己手中
the idea of fate, or the other people's lives in their own hands
我们没有这种权力
We don't have that kind of power
好的。谢谢您。你叫什么名字？
Ok. Thank you. What's your name?
Redd
还有谁？你是怎么想的？
Who else? What do you say?
我想知道，如果Dudley和Steven在Richard奄奄一息时
I'm wondering if Dudley and Steven had asked for Richard's consent in dying
得到了他的同意，是否可以赦免他们的谋杀行为
would that exonerate them from an act of murder
如果在这种情形下，它在道义上是合理的
If so, there's still morally justifiable
很有趣。你叫什么名字？
That's interesting. Consent. What's your name?
Catharine
Catharine，假设现在的情形就像刚才说描述的
Catharine, suppose they've acted what they're now they look like
现在，Duley在那里，拿着一把小刀
So in this story, Duley is there. Penknife in hand
不同的是，在Dudley为Parker死前祷告之前
But instead of the prayer or before the prayer
他说，Parker，你介意
He said,Parker would you mind
我们极度的饥饿
We're desperately hungry
Parker感同身受
As Parker empathized
我们极度饥饿。你不能活多久了
We're desperately hungry. You're not gonna to last long anyhow
我可以做一回杀手吗？Parker你认为如何？
Would you be a murder? How about it Parker?
你觉得呢？现在是否符合道义呢？
What do you think? Would it be morally justified then?
假设Parker一半争着他那昏迷的眼睛，说好吧
Suppose Parker in his semi-stupor eyes, said Ok
我不认为这在道德上是合理的
I don't think it would be morally justifiable
即使这样也不是
Even then it wouldn't be
不是
No
你觉得即使取得对方同意，在道义上还是不合理
You don't think even with consent it would be morally justified
有没有人谁想接着Catharine说下去呢？
Are there people who want to take up Catharine's consent idea?
有谁认为这样做是符合道德的
And who think they would make it morally justified
举高你的手，如果你是这样认为
Raise your hand if you think it would
非常有趣。
That's very interesting.
为什么会取得对方同意，就会产生这样的区别？
Why would consent make a moral difference?
我认为，如果一开始是Parker提出这样的做法的
I think if he's just making his original idea
而且也是他提出来的
and it's his idea to start with
这将是唯一的情况，我能接受的
that would be the only situation in which
这将是唯一的情况，我能接受的
I see it being appropriate anyway
因为这样，你就不能说
because that way you couldn't make the argument that
是大家逼他这样说的，因为是3比1
he was pressured, three to one
如果是他作出决定，牺牲自己的生命
If he's making the decision to give his life
Dudley他们只是充当了中间人
and he took on the agency to sacrifice himself
有些人可能会觉得Parker的奉献精神是值得称赞的
which somebody would see it as admiralbe
其他人可能不同意
other people might disagree with that decision
因此，如果他想出这个主意
So if he came up with the idea
这是唯一情况，我们肯定它是符合道德的
That's the only kind of consent we could have confidence in morally
那么就行了。
Then it would be OK.
否则，其他情形都视作是胁迫的情况
Otherwise, it would kind of coerce consent under the circumstance
有谁以为，即使取得Parker同意
If there anyone who thinks that even the consent of Parker
也不能为他们开罪，谁是这样认为？
would not justify their killing him. Who thinks that?
我认为，Parker是带着一种希望死去的
I think Parker would be killed with the hope that
他心中是想着，其他船员将会获救
the other crew members would be rescued
