所以你没有明确的原因，应该牺牲他
so there're no definite reason that he should be killed
因为你不知道他们什么时候会被救
because you don't know when they're gonna to be rescued
所以，如果你杀了他。你是在谋杀
So if you kill him. It's killing human beings
你是否要一直杀死其他船员，直到你们被救
Do you keep killing the crew members until you're rescued
但是，这里，我们的道德逻辑似乎是，
But the moral logic of this situation seems to be that
他们将继续 杀死那个最弱的，也许
they would keep on picking off the weakest, maybe
一个接一个，直到获救。
one by one,until they were rescued.
幸运的是，在这种情况下，
And in this case, luckily,
他们最终被救出时，其他3人还活着
they were rescued when three were still alive
如果Parker同意了，你觉得就可以这样做呢呢？
If Parker did give his consent, would it be all right, do you think?
我不觉得
No
告诉我们，为什么你为什么不同意
Tell us why it wouldn't be all right
首先，人吃人，我相信在道德上是不正确的
First of all, cannibalism I believe is morally incorrect
因此我们反对人吃人
so shouldn't eating human anyway
因此，人吃人在道义上令人反感
So cannibalism is morally objectionable
因此，即使在这种情况下，等着有人死去
So even in this scenario, waiting until someone die
你仍然会反对这样做
still would be objectionable
是。我觉得，这一切都取决于一个人的道德原则
Yes. I feel like it all depends on one's personal morals
这只是我的意见。
This is just my opinion.
当然，其他人可能会不同意
Of course, other people are gonna to disagree
让我们看看你的分歧是什么，然后我们将看看
Let's see what the disagreements are and then we'll see
如果他们有足够的理由，可以说服你
if they've reason that can persuade you enough
我们来试一下
Let's try that
有没有谁能解释？
Is there someone who can explain?
你们谁是赞成这样做的
Those of you who're tempted by consent
你能解释为什么取得同意会带来这些道德上的区别？
Can you explain why consent makes such a moral difference?
再想想抽签？抽签是否能视作是一种同意？
What about the lottery idea? Does that count as consent?
还记得一开始，Dudley提出了抽签的做法
Remember the beginning, Dudley proposed a lottery
假设他们已经同意了抽签
Suppose they've agreed to a lottery
那么有多少便认为这是可以合理的？
Then how many would then say it's all right?
假设抽签之后决定，要牺牲那个客舱的男孩
Suppose there's a lottery. Cabin boy lost
那么，故事还是原来那样发展下去
Then the rest of the story unfolded
那么有多少人会说这是道德上容许的？
Then how many people would say it's morally permissible?
因此，如果由抽签决定的，更多人就会赞成，
So the number is arising if we've lottery
让我们听到你们中的一个，
对他们来说，抽签会产生这样的区别
for whom the lottery would make such a moral difference
Let's hear from one of you,
为什么会这样？
Why would it?
我认为，考虑是否是犯罪，一个是必不可少的因素
I think the essential element that makes a crime
是在他们自己在私底下做决定
is the idea that they decide at some point
认为他们的生命比他的生命更重要
their lives are more important than his
我的意思是对任何罪行为的基础是
I mean that's the basis for any crime
觉得，我的需要、我的愿望比你的更重要
My needs, my desire are more important than yours
如果他们已经做了抽签，每个人都同意
If they've done a lottery where everyone consented
有人必须要牺牲
that someone should die
这就像是偶然性让他牺牲了来救活其他人
It's like the odds sacrifices himself to save the rest
这样就变成可以接受的
Then it would be all right
听起来有点怪，但在道义上允许的
A little grotesque but morally permissible
你叫什么名字？
What's your name?
Matt
那么困扰你的，不是人吃人
So what bother you is not the cannibalism
而是缺乏应有的程序
but the lack of due process
我想你可以这么说，
I guess you could say that
有谁同意用Matt的观点，再补充一点
Can someone who agrees with Matt say a little bit more
为什么抽签使得这变成是道德允许的
about why a lottery would make it morally permissible
我的理解是，
The way I understood it originally was that
整体的问题是
that's a whole issue
就是从来没有征询那个男孩的意见
The cabin boy was never consulted it about
不论将会有什么事情发生在他身上
whether or not something was gonna to happen to him
即使原来抽签
even with the originally lottery
他是否会参与了其中
whether or not he would be part of that
大家就这样决定了，他就是那个要牺牲的
It was just decided that he was the one who's gonna to die
现实情况就是这样的况
That's what happened in the actual case
但是，如果有抽奖，他们同意了这个程序
But if there's a lottery, and they agree to the procedure
你认为这是合理的
you think that would be OK
是的。因为每个人都知道有人将会死去
Right. Because everyone know there's gonna to be a death
但那个男孩不知道
whereas the cabin boy didn't know
大家就这样决定了
the discussion was even happening
提前没有让他知道
There's no fore warning for him to know that
他就是那个可能会死亡的
I may be the one that's dying
好的。假设每个人都同意的抽签
All right. Suppose everyone agrees to the lottery
他们已经抽签。那个男孩抽中那个签
They've the lottery. The cabin boy lose it
他改变了主意
And he changes his mind
但您已经决定。这就像一个口头合同
You've already decided. It's like a verbal contract
你不能改回去了
You cann't go back on that
你已经决定了
You decided. The decision was made
如果你知道你将为他人死去
If you know you're dying
如果你知道你将为他人死去
for the reason for others to live
如果是其他人死去
if someone else have died
你知道你会吃他们的肉
you know you would consume them
好的。然后，我知道，但我输了
Right. Then he could take, I know, but I lost
我只是认为，整个道德问题在于
I just think that's the whole moral issue
有没有征询那个男孩
there's no consulting of the cabin boy
最可怕的就是，
That's what make it the most horrible is that
他不知道，将会发生什么事
he had no idea what was even going on
如果他知道这是怎么回事
If he known what's going on
就变得更容易接受了
it would be more understandable
好的。现在我想听听
All right. Good. Now I want to hear
所以，有些人认为这是道德上允许的
so there're some who think it's morally permissible
但只有约20％，Markies是其代表
but only about 20%, led by Markies
还有一些说
Then there're some who say,
真正的问题是缺乏获得他人同意
the real problem here is lack of consent
是否抽签决定，是否经过一个公平的程序，
whether the lack of consent to a lottery, to a fair procedure,
或者像Catharine所说在他死的那一刻没有征询同意
or Catharine's idea lack of consent at the moment of death
如果多了同意，更多的人会赞成
and if we add consent then more people are willing
牺牲他人的生命在道德上是允许的
to consider the sacrifice morally justified
最后，我想听听
I want to hear now finally
那些认为，即使获得了同意
from those of you who think even with consent
即使有抽签，
even with a lottery,
即使Parker最后同意了
even with a final murmur of consent by Parker
在最后一刻
at the very last moment
它仍然是错误的
it would still be wrong
而且为什么是错误的？这就是我想听到
And why would it be wrong? That's what I wanna to hear
由始至终，我一直倾向于
The whole time I've been leaning towards
绝对主义的道德推理
the categorical moral reasoning
我认为有一个可能我会同意
I think that there're a possibility I'll be OK
那就是抽签的做法
with the idea of lottery
中签的人只是自己杀死自己
and the loser taking into his own hands to kill themselves
这样就不算是谋杀行为
so they won't be an act of murder
但我仍然认为，即使这样，它还算是被迫的
but I still think that even that way it's coerce
此外，我不认为Dudley的日记里带有悔改之意
Also I don't think there's any remorse in Dudley's diary
“我们正在吃我们的早餐”
We're eating our breakfast
看起来，他只是
It seems that he just reflected the whole idea of
他不珍惜他人生命的一个反映
not valuing someone else life
这让我觉得我必须采纳绝对主义
That makes me be feel like I have to take the categorical
你想，把我们的教科书扔给他看看
You want to throw the book at him
当他在放松时还要想着道德
When he relaxed with morals
反思自己是否做了错事
and sense of having done anything wrong
是的
Right
好的。有没有人要辩护
So. All right. Any other defenders
谁认为这是错误的，绝对的错误，无论是否征得同意
who said it's categorically wrong whether it's without consent
我们的社会说：“谋杀就是谋杀”
The society say, "Murder is murder"
以各种方式谋杀
Murder is murder in every way
在我看来，大家好像觉得这和其他谋杀是不一样
In our sight, it looks as a murder don't in the same way
我认为，谋杀在任何情况下都没有任何差别
I don't think any difference in any case
让我问你一个问题
Let me ask you a question
3比1，3个危在旦夕的人呢
There were three lives at stake versus one
对 一个船上侍者，一个男孩。
The one the cabin boy.
他没有家庭。他没有亲人
He had no family. He had no dependents
其他3人在英国有他们的家庭
These other three had families back home in England
他们的家人。他们有妻子和子女
They had dependents. They've wives and children
回想一下 边沁
Think back the Bentham
边沁说，我们要考虑福利，
Bentham said we'd to consider the welfare,
最大的效用，大家的福祉
the utility, the happiness of everybody
