你根据一个 武断的因素 做出判断
You're basing something that's an arbitrary factor,
要知道，Cheryl 无法控制她是一个白人，还是 少数民族
you know, Cheryl couldn't control the fact that she was white, or not in a minority.
因此...比如 她很努力地准备考试
And therefore, you know, it's not as if..it was like a test score that she worked hard to try
想证明给你看，她是可以的。而她却出局了
and show that she could, you know, put that out there,
要知道，她无法控制自己的种族
you know, that she had no control over her race.
很好。你的名字？——Bree
Good. And what're your name? Bree.
很好，Bree，留在那儿
Okay. Bree, stay right there.
现在，让我们再找一个人，来回应Bree
Now let's find someone who has an answer for Bree.
你？ 教育体系存在着差异
Yes? - There are discrepancies in the educational system.
大多数时候，我知道 在纽约
And the majority of the time, I know this in New York City,
少数民族上的学校，都不像白人学校那样，
the schools that minorities go to, are not as well-funded,
资金充足，供应充足。
are not as well-supplied, as white schools.
因此，少数民族和白人之间 就形成了 自然的差异
And so there is going to be a discrepancy, naturally, between minorities and between whites.
如果白人们 没上到 较好的学校
If they go to better schools.
他们在考试中的表现 就不会有那么好，因为他们不能得到更多的帮助
And they will not do as well on exams because they haven't had as much help.
因为 那个糟糕的学校体制
Because of the worst school systems.
对不起，我来打断一下，告诉我 你的名字吗？
Let me just interrupt you to, tell me your name?
Aneesha，你的意思是
Aneesha.- Aneesha. Aneesha, you're pointing out
在某些情况下，少数民族的子女所上的学校 可能不能
that minority kids may have gone, in some cases, to schools
像有钱人的子女 所上的学校那样，提供同等的教育机会，是吗？
that didn't give them the same educational opportunity as kids from affluent families.
是的
- Yes.
所以，他们的测试分数
And so the testscores they got,
可能并不代表 他们真正的实力
may actually not representtheir true potential.
因为他们没有得到，在资金更充足的学校里 那样的帮助
Because they didn't receive the same kind of help that they might have received had they gone to a school with better funding.
好的。Aneesha 提出了这样一个观点
Good, alright. Aneesha has raised the point
大学应该录取那些 学术上最有可能成功的学生
that colleges still should choose for the greatest academic scholarly promise
但 在看他们的中学成绩 和 考试得分时
but in reading the test scores and grades,
还应当根据他们受教育的不平等，来考虑
这些成绩和考分 背后的不同意义
they should take into account the different meaning those tests and grades have, in the light of educational disadvantage in the background.
这就是捍卫“平权行动”的一个理由
So that's one argument in defense of affirmative action, Aneesha's argument.
矫正不平等的先天条件
Correcting for the effects of unequal preparation.
教育上的劣势
Educational disadvantage.
现在，我们再来听听其他看法
Now, there are other arguments.
为了确定 这里面是否存在着一个竞争性原则
Suppose, just to identify whether there is a competing principle here.
假设 这里有两位候选人
Suppose there are two candidates,
两人的成绩和考分 都一样
who did equally well on the tests and grades.
两人都在第一流学校里上学
Both of whom went to first rate schools.
相比其他候选人，这两人可能还会
Two candidates, among those candidates,
在一些大学或学院里 遭到不公正对待，譬如哈佛说
would it be unfair for the college or university, for Harvard, to say,
我们还是想照顾到 种族和肤色的多样性
"we still want diversity along racial and ethnic dimensions,
即使这样 可能顾及不到 教育不平等对考分的影响”
even where we are not correcting for the effects on test scores of educational disadvantage."
对此 你又怎么看？Bree
What about in that case, Bree?
如果 这是其中一个（录取标准），成为了一些人的优势
If it's that's one thing that puts, you know, someone over the edge,
那么，我猜那会是合理的
then it's, I guess that would be,you know, justifiable.
但如果只考虑他们的其他方面，例如天赋和出身
If everything else about the individual first, though, everything to consider about that person's you know,
talents, and where they come from, and who they are
没有这些“专横的因素”的话，这两人是一样的。
without these arbitrary factors, is the same.
没有这些 你所说的“专横的因素”
Without these 'arbitrary factors', you call them.
你是说，种族和肤色都是“专横的因素”
But before, you were suggesting, Bree, that race and ethnicity are arbitrary factors
是申请人无法控制的。好的，我同意这一点
outside the control of the applicants.- True, I would agree with that.
你的总原则是，录取时 不应该奖励这些 人们无法控制的、专横的因素。
And your general principle is that admissions shouldn't reward arbitrary factors, over which people have no control.- Right.
好的。还有谁。谢谢你们二位
Alright. Who else, who else would like to, thank you both.
谁愿意对此发表意见？你会怎么说？
Who else would like to get into this, what do you say?
好的。首先，我暂时支持 “平权行动”
Well, first of all, I'm for affirmative action temporarily,
但 这里有两个理由
but, for two reasons.
首先，你必须看到 大学的目的是什么
First of all, you have to look at the university's purpose.
它的目的是教育学生
It is to educate their students.
我认为，来自不同种族的人们，有着不同的背景
And I feel that different races, people coming from different races have different backgrounds
他们为教育做出的贡献也不同
and they contribute differently to the education.
其次，当说到 他们有平等的背景时
And second of all, when you say that they have equal backgrounds,
如果把眼光放远，你会发现不是这样的。
that's not true when you look at the broader picture,
看看奴隶制时期。而“平权行动”就像是对此的一种补偿。
and you look at slavery and this is kind of a reparation.
它是 为了缓解这段历史，特别是对非裔美国人犯下的错误，
的一种临时性的解决措施。
I think affirmative action is a temporary solution to alleviate history, and the wrongs done to African Americans in particular.
你的名字？
And what's your name?
David—David，你说 消除歧视行为
David.- David. You say that affirmative action
至少在目前，它是对过去那段不正义的历史 的一种补偿
is justified at least for now as a way of compensating for past injustice.
是黑奴制和种族隔离 遗留下来的产物。 是的。
The legacy of slavery and segregation.- Right.
谁想来接着这点谈下去？
Who wants to take on that argument?
我们现在需要听听 对“平权行动” 的批评
We need now a critic of affirmative action.
好的，请
Yes, go ahead.
我认为，过去发生的事情，与今天发生的事情 毫无关系
I think that what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens today.
我认为，基于种族 来差别对待的做法 总是错误的
I think that discriminating based on race should always be wrong.
无论你歧视一个种族，还是另外一个。
Whether you're discriminating against one group or another.
仅仅因为我们的祖先做了某些事情
Just because our ancestors did something,
并不意味着 就一定要影响到我们今天发生的事情
doesn't mean that that should have any effect on what happens with us today.
好的，很好。对不起，你的名字？Kate
Alright, good. I'm sorry, your name is?- Kate.
Kate。好的。谁来回应Kate的观点？
Kate. Alright, who has an answer for Kate?
我只是想说
Yes.- I just wanted to comment and say that,
告诉我 你的名字
- Tell us your name.
我的名字是Mansur。由于奴隶制，由于过去的不公正
My name is Mansur. Because of slavery, because of past injustices,
导致今天 非裔美国人的贫困比例更高
today, we have a higher proportion of African Americans who are in poverty,
他们面对的机会比白人更少
who face less opportunities than white people.
因此，由于200年前的奴隶制
So because of slavery 200 years ago,
由于Jim Crow（对黑人的蔑称），由于种族隔离
and because of Jim Crow, and because of segregation,
才有我们今天 建立在种族基础上的不公正
today we have injustice based on race.
Kate？——我认为 差异是显然存在的
Kate?- I think that there are differences obviously,
但不能通过 对结果的人工修正，来弥补这些差异
but the way to fix those differences is not by some artificial fixing of the result.
你得解决这个问题
You need to fix the problem.
所以，我们解决教育的差别问题
So we need to address differences in education,
通过像 Head Start这样的项目，来解决在儿童早期的教育差异
and differences in upbringing with programs like Head Start,
给那些低收入的学校 提供更多资助
and giving more funding to lower income schools
而不是仅仅去 尝试修补那个结果
rather than just trying to fix the result,
那样做的话，只是看上去平等，但实际上并非如此。
so it makes it look like it's equal when it's really it isn't.
是的
Yes.
关于 建立在种族基础上的“平权行动”
Well, with regard to affirmative action based on race,
我只是想说，在这个国家里，白人有自己的“平权行动”
I just want to say that white people have had their own affirmative action
已经超过400年历史了
in this country for more than 400 years.
它被叫做 “任人唯亲”和 “补偿”
It's called 'nepotism' and 'quid pro quo'.
因此，纠正 400年来对黑人的不公正和歧视，并无不妥。
So there's nothing wrong with correcting the injustice and discrimination that's been done to black people for 400 years.
很好，告诉我你的名字？——Hannah
Good. Tell us your name.- Hannah.
Hannah。好的。谁来回应Hannah？
Hannah. Alright who has an answer for Hannah?
或者补充她的观点
And just to add to Hannah's point,
因为现在我们需要某个人回答
because we need now someone to respond,
Hannah，你应该要提一下“遗留录取” 的政策 (你的子女申请你的母校，会有特别的优待)
Hannah, you could have also mentioned legacy admissions.
我正要说这一点
Exactly. I was going to say,
如果你不同意 “平权行动”
if you disagree with affirmative action,
你应该也不会同意“遗留录取” 的政策
you should disagree with legacy admission
因为很显然，环顾这里，
because it's obvious from looking around here that
哈佛的历史上，白人“遗留生” 要远多于 黑人“遗留生”
there are more white legacies than black legacies in the history of Harvard University.
解释一下 “遗留录取” 的政策
And explain what legacy admissions are.
好的。“遗留录取” 是让你的子女申请你的母校时，会有特别的优待
Well, legacy admissions is giving an advantage to someone who has an arbitrary privilege of
their parent having attended the university to which they're applying.
好的。给Hannah的一个回应
Alright, so a reply for Hannah.
是的，二楼的，请
Yes, in the balcony, go ahead.
首先，如果“平权行动” 是为了 补救过去的不公正
First of all, if affirmative action is making up for past injustice,
那么，你怎样解释 在过去的美国历史上，没有遭到歧视的少数族裔
how do you explain minorities that were not historically discriminated against in the United States
也从中得到好处呢？
who get these advantages?
此外，“平权行动” 让种族的隔阂 长久存在
In addition, you could argue that affirmative action perpetuates divisions between the races
而没有实现 让种族 成为我们的社会里无关紧要因素
这一最高目标
rather than achieve the ultimate goal of race being an irrelevant factor in our society.
告诉我 你的名字
And what, tell us your name.
Danielle——Hannah
Danielle.- Hannah.
我不同意这一点。因为我认为 在这样一个机构里促进多样性
I disagree with that because I think that by promoting diversity in an institution like this,
你就能进一步地步教育所有学生，尤其是那些
过去都生活在白人圈子里的学生。
you further educate all of the students, especially the white students who grew up in predominately white areas.
让人们接触不同背景的人，这当然是教育的一种形式。
It's certainly a form of education to be exposed to people from different backgrounds.
当你让白人都生活在自己的白人圈子里，你便让他们
处于一种内在的劣势之中。
And you put white students at an inherent disadvantage when you surround them only with their own kind.
为什一定要把种族 与 多样性等同起来？
Why should race necessarily be equated with diversity?
我们有许多其他的形式，我们为什么就假定了 种族让大家不同？
There are so many other forms, why should we assume that race makes people different?
而且，这使得种族隔阂的思想 长存于我们的大学和社会里。
Hannah?
Again, that's perpetuating the idea of racial division within our universities and our society.- Hannah?
对于非裔美国人受到的这种特别优待
With regard to African American people being given a special advantage,
显然，他们给大家带来了一些 独特的东西
it's obvious that they bring something special to the table,
因为 就像来自一种不同宗教信仰或社会经济背景人一样，
他们带来了一种独特的视角
because they have a unique perspective just as someone from a different religion or socio-economic background would, as well.
如你所言，多样性的形式有很多。
As you say, there are many different types of diversity.
所以，没有理由把人种的多样性 从这些标准中抹煞掉
There's no reason that racial diversity should be eliminated from that criteria.
是的，继续
